Gottacon 2013 - Tyranids (1750)

Inquisitor Posts : 111 Join date : 2012-01-30

HQ
Tyranid Prime w/dual boneswords and deathspitter

ELITES
2x Hive Guard
2x Hive Guard
Doom w/mycetic spore

TROOPS
10x Genestealers w/adrenal glands
10x Genestealers w/adrenal glands
10x Genestealers w/adrenal glands
3x Warriors w/bonesword, lash whip and deathspitter

HEAVY SUPPORT
Trygon
Trygon
Tyrannofex w/rupture cannon

THE PLAN

Prime goes with warriors to baby-sit nearby objective in C&C or SG (go to ground in cover for 3++, T4, 12 wounds. Assaulting them in cover has you at I1 eating 9 WS 6 S4 ID-causing power weapons and 3 WS 6 S5 ID-causing power weapons. If you try to shoot them out, they have 12 18" BS4 S5 guns).
Hive Guard, Tyrannofex and Trygons start on table, ruthlessly pursuing vehicles.
Doom pods in near hopefully popped transport.
Genestealers outflank into juicy bits.

Hard to get AT with 'nids but this gives me 8 S8 shots that ignore cover, 2 S10 shots, whatever the Doom ends up with (potentially S10) and the trygons have been known to wreck tanks.

Star Player Posts : 322 Join date : 2012-02-06

Looks pretty mean. I think if Warriors have EW they would be insanely OP. :p

Inquisitor Posts : 111 Join date : 2012-01-30

Yeah, EW might be going too far. Maybe higher Toughness or a better save? Just something to prevent them from eating missiles and dying so easily.

Now, does this list actually look mean? If you saw this across the table from you, would you actually be concerned?

Star Player Posts : 322 Join date : 2012-02-06

Well I would look at it like this.

"Whats on the table"

HQ
Tyranid Prime w/dual boneswords and deathspitter

ELITES
2x Hive Guard
2x Hive Guard

TROOPS
3x Warriors w/bonesword, lash whip and deathspitter

HEAVY SUPPORT
Trygon
Trygon
Tyrannofex w/rupture cannon

Of those, I would most likely have LOS in my turn 1 on the Trygons, and Tyrannofex. I would try and focus on one to the exclusion of all else.

With my BA list, that would be 2 x TL Assault Cannon, 2 Autocannons, 4 Lascannons, and whatever I could get out of the Stormraven, that would put you down probably 1 Trygon or Tyrannofex within a turn. If the Hive Guard cant reach over 24 inches (I honestly dont remember their range) then you really dont have much thats going to threaten, until I at least get 1 full turn of shooting, maybe 2 in on your big guys.

I think what would worry me more, would be if all stealers where on the field at the same time, simply because reserving that much of your force just leaves less targets, making prioritization easier.

Inquisitor Posts : 111 Join date : 2012-01-30

24" on Hive Guard.

Yes, that's a good point. The big guys are only good targets when you're forced to choose them or something else threatening. My concern is that almost every time I start my 'stealers on the table, cover or not, they get shot to pieces before they can do anything.

Star Player Posts : 322 Join date : 2012-02-06

Yeah, and as I learned last night, 24 inches is a lot more short range then you would think :p

I think (though I have only played against your nids like once or twice in the several years we have been playing!!) that they would be best served being aggressive, and offering target saturation.

Pro Posts : 193 Join date : 2012-01-30

This would look alot worse if we were using House Rules Tyranids.

I just listened to two different podcasts going over the nids FAQ, and another assessing the 'state of the game' at the end of 5th with tyranids being this episodes focus.

So with some US Tourney heresay added in;

No warrior statlines.

Swarmy is OK, but is footslogging, Tervigons are the shit, both as troops AND HQ. Personally, my bro and myself have had success with a very simple flying tyrant, since the movement makes him a viable MC, who can remain in combat like a DP, this strategy has required Gargoyles to provide a covering squad...
6-9 Hiveguard to be competitive. they were even questioning whether Doom was worth the third HG brood (they do face alot of mech guard)
Genestealer spam is totally viable, but you will need more saturation; best at 4-5 broods of 12-16, 2-3 with broodlords. one or two of those are Reserves (regular) if there is an objective within 14" of your table edge. the games mentioned where Gene Spam outflanked, it was not a big deal, and the players were MUCH more afraid of all those broods Infiltrating. It just makes half your Melee army deploy within 18" of your opponent, and potentially On objectives, In cover.... never even have to move them.
Trygons are decent, best on offer anyway, with the DakkaFex being an OK second. Tyranofex was resoundingly called too may points; not neccessarily a bad deal, just a big total.

Anyway, if you're not planning on buying much by then, your game will come down to practice, practice, practice....

Star Player Posts : 322 Join date : 2012-02-06

Night Lord wrote:: Genestealer spam is totally viable, but you will need more saturation; best at 4-5 broods of 12-16, 2-3 with broodlords. one or two of those are Reserves (regular) if there is an objective within 14" of your table edge. the games mentioned where Gene Spam outflanked, it was not a big deal, and the players were MUCH more afraid of all those broods Infiltrating. It just makes half your Melee army deploy within 18" of your opponent, and potentially On objectives, In cover.... never even have to move them.

This right here, would be what I would be concerned with. Especially considering if you get a good draw in terms of terrain on your tables, you could be running from cover to cover the whole time.

Inquisitor Posts : 111 Join date : 2012-01-30

HQ
Tyranid Prime w/dual boneswords and deathspitter

ELITES
2x Hive Guard
2x Hive Guard
2x Hive Guard

TROOPS
3x Warriors w/bonesword, lash whip and deathspitter
9x genestealers w/adrenal glands
9x genestealers w/adrenal glands
9x genestealers w/adrenal glands
9x genestealers w/adrenal glands
9x genestealers w/adrenal glands

HEAVY SUPPORT
Trygon Prime
Trygon

The Plan
Lost Doom and the Tyrannorfex. Gained 15 genestealers and 2 hive guard.

Start with all the genestealers as close as can be with infiltration, everything on the board, moving fast and hard. The Warriors, Prime, Hive Guard and Trygons do the same thing as in the previous list.

Star Player Posts : 322 Join date : 2012-02-06

Nice, that would be worrisome. When you consider potential cover saves, thats a lot of bugs to shoot up before they are in your face rending your guys.

Pro Posts : 193 Join date : 2012-01-30

yah, 45+ renders is bad news for alot of lists. I also like that you can keep your old gene lists (essentially) from before!

Inquisitor Posts : 111 Join date : 2012-01-30

It just occurred to me that I have no idea how I would play this list against an all-reserve army...thoughts?

Star Player Posts : 322 Join date : 2012-02-06

Skimmers suck to catch, thats one of the reasons I had massive issues with Eldar at the tournament. All you can do is force the action by placement of objective markers, or bring things that are fast of your own. Once I get the book I'll have some more educated guesses. :p

Star Player Posts : 322 Join date : 2012-02-06

At first look over, I would think you have to play nids in a fairly defensive/castle method at first, and then just roll over the opponent in the later rounds?

Pro Posts : 193 Join date : 2012-01-30

Yah the space elves/all reserve would be the worst. In that case you will have 2-3 turns to (hopefully) massively castle arround the objectives (which you have hopefully placed far from each other) and once they are commited, sent your steam rollers out.

Another option it to try to saturate the board (with slow models/shooters in the middle), so that wherever they arrive, you will be close enough to bog them down a bit while the rest of the swarm converges....

If you find that that matchup is one of your three worst: that's what you test against every other week..... and learn how to best play it, even if it's not optimal (all armies have a top three bad matchups)

Inquisitor Posts : 111 Join date : 2012-01-30

Top three worst match ups, hey? In no particular order:

-Full reserve mech-dar.
-3x Long Fang Razor-spam
-Anything srg is playing Wink

Pro Posts : 193 Join date : 2012-01-30

Ok, so theoretically if an All Reserve army is one of your worst matchups, and mech-dar is problematic for many armies, How might we mitigate that??

if all the Troops infiltrate, but you keep at least one Trygon, and Doom in Reserve (I thought to leave one Trygon as a big target, so that when the enemies arrive to Alpha Strike, they will choose Trygon #1 rather than your troops) then, like all reserves, hope you get your two drops late enough to act less like the rest of your deployment and are more immediate threats.

we'll have to play it out a few times!

Star Player Posts : 322 Join date : 2012-02-06

All Reserve, Skimmer is so tough. I think the best method is as you mention, but combined. Castle up, and swarm the board.

At 1750, I think it would crazy to ignore what 2 or 3 Tervigons could, in theory, do for you. You have enough monsters below, to hold the center in a very big way, and your going to have troops all over the table in short order, to the point where it would be very difficult for a full Eldar reserve list to combat you just based on numbers. DEldar would have their ton of venoms, but those DO drop like flies to anything.

This is what I threw together after I got the codex, no clue if its good or not, but I made it thinking of the above scenario. Still have 245 points to spend on something? 2 Small Counter Assault Warrior squads? Small Genestealers squads? I dont know.

Tervigon - 160
160
160

Hive Guard x 3 = 150
Hive Guard x 3 = 150
Venomthrope x 2 = 110
410

Termagant - 10 x 5
Strangleweb - 10
60

Tervigon - 160
Catalyst - 15
175

Termagant - 10 x 5
Strangleweb - 10
60

Tervigon - 160
Catalyst - 15
175
470

Tyranofexx - 265
Trygon -200
530

Pro Posts : 193 Join date : 2012-01-30

I think that would be a killer list against anyone BUT an 'A' player. I think a really savvy general, whith a decent list, will be able to target your threats (trygon early, then tervis) and just deal with the gaunts as they come... again, something that needs testing.

Inquisitor Posts : 111 Join date : 2012-01-30

It's got a fair amount of survivability but very little "punch". The HG, trygon and t-fex do some damage but the tervigons aren't very good in combat and the gaunts...well, they're gaunts. Better for holding objectives and harassing over any good threat. From personal experience, I think a decent-good BA list would tear this one apart. But maybe I just hate BA...

Star Player Posts : 322 Join date : 2012-02-06

What is it you hate about BA? In terms of hardcore lists they are firmly under the true top 3.

Inquisitor Posts : 111 Join date : 2012-01-30

Their mobility and bloodclaws. One dread can take out a pack of 'stealers.

Star Player Posts : 322 Join date : 2012-02-06

Yeah, I can see walkers being an issue for Nids, much like Daemons.

Pro Posts : 193 Join date : 2012-01-30

I feel that's part of the trade-off one gets taking walkers in a list. very all or nothing. also MCs do fine, and Gene packs still do OK. Who plays BA anyway?

Star Player Posts : 322 Join date : 2012-02-06

Well there where at least 3 or 4 BA lists at Gottacon, its a good idea to consider them.